Episode #4: Nicky Raby
Thriving in a portfolio career and defining your own version of success
In this episode, Caroline talks to to actor, coach, speaker and all round brilliant woman Nicky Raby about thriving in a portfolio career and defining your own version of success.
Welcome to Money & Me, the podcast where we talk honestly about money and how it makes us feel. Before we dive into this episode, I wanted to tell you that we’ve just launched our crowdfunding campaign for Lifetise. So please check out our campaign at seedrs.com/lifetise.
In this episode, Caroline talks to actor, coach and around brilliant woman Nicky Raby, about thriving in a portfolio career and defining your own version of success.
Welcome to Money & Me, today I am joined by Nicky Raby. Nicky is a huge advocate of the portfolio career. She’s an actor, a personal branding coach. writer and speaker. She’s passionate about supporting other women (and men) to create a business and life that defines their version of success. She trained at Mount View and continues to enjoy a thriving career across theatre, television, film and commercial work. She’s worked with over 1000 clients to help them consolidate their personal brand and become visible so they can do more of what they love and get paid for it. She has a son and daughter and lives in London.
Good morning. Thanks for having me.
Absolute pleasure. Wow, just reading that I was like, you have such an eclectic career doing loads of different things. Tell me about them. How did this happen?
Yeah, I am the lover of the portfolio career. And it’s happened through lots of trial and error, a few ugly cries and lots of determination to try and stay sort of focused on what I want my life and business to be like. Because I think so often, especially at school, we’re just presented with one version of success. And there were quite a few options that were being revealed to me at school where I was like: Nah, mate, you’re alright, that’s not the one for me.
And so where did it start? Was acting the first piece of this for you.
Yes. So acting was my first love and it’s still, you know, a very lovely piece of my income pie. So, I moved to London from a small town in Lincolnshire in 2000. And I went to drama school for three years. In my third year, I got spotted by an agent and then I got two jobs back-to-back from my showcase. So when you’re in your third year at drama school, you get to play the West End, which is very exciting . It’s basically a really weird bidding war, auction type situation where all the agents, all the casting directors in London come and they see the latest talent. So I was really lucky that I got a break there. And then after those two jobs finished, it kind of went quiet for a little bit. And that’s when I had to have that moment of like, maybe Steven Spielberg doesn’t know my number. So I’m gonna have to try to make this work.
And just to give a bit of context to it. This was a time where the internet was semi kind of a thing, but it was something that you went to the library to log on, and then you’d never have the number and then the woman behind the desk to be like, Oh, sorry, love we’ve closed, the computers today, you know. So yeah, exactly. There was no social media, and I was walking around Soho with an A to Z trying to figure it out. So for many years, and in my 20s, I guess, I did a lot of jobs which were paid by the hour. Stuff that I just was vaguely interested in as in like, I could make it work and put a smile on my face. But I knew that because I was clever (and again, this is a weird thing to sort of admit), but I was like, I have an entrepreneurial spirit and I need to make this work as a business. And that was a picture that hadn’t been shown to me. So I was sort of delivered the – you’re an actor and you’re successful, and you’re making it or you’re sitting crying at home, waiting for the phone to ring and you know, a crumbly mess.
And very quickly, I realised that actually, in order to make this work, it has to come from me, I couldn’t wait for somebody else to make my dreams come true as it were. So I got to work and I thought about all the other skills that I had, and I decided to build this portfolio career. So I’m now at this stage like you mentioned, where I trained as a coach. So I now worked with a lot of people with their personal brand, their portfolio career. So helping them figure out what their idea is, how they can earn money, basically sharing a lot of things that I’ve done myself; how to market yourself online, offline, how to pitch; how to generate opportunities for yourself. And I then do a lot of speaking and a lot of writing and podcasting from there. So that’s kind of where it sort of developed from, but again along the way – and I’m sure we’ll get into this a little bit later – there was a lot of self development and a lot of work that went alongside like, this proces. And it was never the case of: “I just woke up like this”, believe me. I really didn’t.
Yeah, so interesting, isn’t it. I’ve had quite a mishmash career. And it’s only really now that I’m 42 and I look back on it and the things I’m doing now, I can see how each of the pieces fit together, and is incredibly valuable for me with the business that I’m running now. But I think at the time, certainly friends of mine were like: “what is she doing? But why is she moving from this to this to this? That doesn’t make sense!” But I’m, like super curious and quite driven and ambitious. And I found it quite difficult to admit that I was ambitious before. I felt that was quite a difficult thing to say out loud.
You know, it was never a good thing. When we were at school. You weren’t champion for girl power. You know, this is all before the Spice Girls and all of that, you know, it wasn’t a thing to be an ambitious woman.
Absolutely not. And I think it’s amazing now that we do have so many people like you who are saying, look, it doesn’t have to be a straight line. It can be something that you put together over time, and you’re not necessarily going to be able to map it all out now, but it sounds to me like you try to be intentional about it.
Yeah, I think so. However, even though I’ve always had this big vision of what I wanted, there have definitely been times where I’ve felt off track or I felt that nothing was working or just the sheer impatience of really isn’t this hard? Is it this much work? Should I just get a job, you know, the real sort of toddler thing of having my bottom lip out and my arms folded and being in a huff, you know, I feel like I’ve had those moments. But what I do do regularly is reflect and keep delving deeper as to (a) what do I want and (b) and this is the work I do with my clients: Am I taking action to get me closer to what that vision is? And if I’m not, why not? Because on one level, I can sometimes say: Oh, it’s because I don’t have the money, or I’m the wrong age, or I’ve got ginger hair, or I’ve had a baby, or I just don’t have time for that right now. But quite often, it’s actually fear that holds me back. It’s always to do with my own stuff. And quite often, that is the case for many of my clients as well. Because I think in this world of personal development, which is wonderful and great, there is a lot of “just think positively”. And so many of us are really practical and we like a to do list we like something to work through. We like to know if we’re on track or off track, and just think positive is just like saying, “just be happy love, put a smile on your face” and it’s meaningless. So I try and really think about how I can make this practical every single day and a lot of my progression and moving forward comes from getting really specific to what I’m actually aiming for.
I was thinking about this this morning, I think I’d reached the age of 30, before I’d even considered the idea that your thoughts create your feelings. I remember going to my first therapist and him saying: “you do understand that there’s like a connection between how you think, and then the emotions that you feel?” It was like a eureka moment for me. I was like: the thing that I’m putting off might be because I’ve got a lot of fear. And that fear is created by me thinking: Oh, you’re going to bomb at this, you’re going to fail, so you shouldn’t even try it because it’s going to be humiliating. Everyone’s gonna laugh at you. And yes, so just don’t bother. It’s incredible.
It really is. And there are so many voices or old stories that are sometimes not our own, and it just becomes really loud in our heads when we’re trying to make progress. So, for example, if you haven’t dealt with that old story of a teacher saying at school that you were never going to come to anything, when you come to take steps towards your business, that voice (even though it might be 30 years old), might still be really loud. And that might be a block for you. I used to have that a little bit from boys at school who would be mean to me and say, you know: oh, you’re ugly, or your ginger (this is all before ginger people were cool or diversity or anything like that). I mean, to be a hot chick in my school, it was all about having a really awful perm, a Kappa jacket and resting bitchface at all times. And you know, that is not my vibe. I do pride myself on trying to be kind and lovely and all of those things.
I guess now I’m, you know, I’m 40 next year, and I was thinking about the influence that those boys had on my upbringing, or like my fear of being seen, I guess. And then I did a little bit of maths and I was thinking, oh my goodness, now I’m at the age that some of their dads would have been at that time. And would I choose those men as partners now. No, I wouldn’t. And I’ve deliberately – sounds awful – I’ve deliberately chosen a man who is open, but you know, I do believe that we again can create our own reality. So I think when we have the fear, it’s really layered like an onion. You have to keep peeling it back and looking at it because there could be so many different ways that it’s showing up and now that I’ve got that image in my head of like: yeah, definitely that guy would not be for me and I would not be for them. It’s really been healing in terms of moving forward.
So you have this portfolio career. How how has it affected your relationship with money? Have you always been somebody who finds it easy to talk about money, or to ask for money? Because, I know a lot of people (particularly where their business is almost like an extension of themselves), find it really challenging to then ask for money in a way that they get the real value of the work that they’re doing.
I think my relationship with money has been complicated over time. I found it difficult in the beginning because I didn’t have a template for making money as an creative person. If you don’t have a context or a pattern to follow, you can spend a lot of time making some quite awful mistakes, or just playing small. I really felt like I was starting from scratch and one thing that I noticed was, I actually didn’t know any actors that made any money before I became one and became that person to make money from it.
There’s also a thing about 20 years ago certainly, is you couldn’t really do what you loved and get paid for it. And artistic creative endeavours weren’t necessarily valued. And there was this, the sort of old school thinking of: just do it for the love, and the jobbing actor and a struggling artist and all of these things and a reluctance to pay. Actually, you know, there was this very hierarchical system where the big producers would be getting all the money, and actors would be really thrilled that they got a sandwich and a packet of crisps and maybe their bus fare home. So it didn’t necessarily feel that balanced.
So over time, I’ve really had to work at what my own self worth is and being bold about pricing. And certainly about five years ago, I made a big shift to going out full-on by myself and not relying on any regular work. And it was a deliberate choice. You know, I was working as an agent, and I was good at it. And I was supporting all these other people. I was a strategist helping their dreams come true. I was just doing it part-time is sort of my in between acting work, because my coaching business wasn’t necessarily established as well as it could be then. And then I suddenly woke up and I was like, oh, my goodness, all I’m doing is supporting other dreams of other people and making those come true. And I had to make that real shift of like, okay, I can either stay here or I can be bold, and take a leap and see what happens.
And very quickly, things did start to happen. And I started to shift in the way that I worked. I started to bring in passive income streams. I started to package up what I did, that it wasn’t an hourly thing that I would be able to charge more. And I had to do a lot of money mindset work around that about self worth and what I could offer. And remember that even though I hadn’t had that traditional corporate background, I was still valid. And I kept hearing the same thing again and again, where people will be like, wow, that makes so much sense to me. I’ve never heard it been said in that way. And then the more you hear those things, and the more you do stuff, that’s when you sort of go, actually, maybe I have got something to say, and maybe I do need to do this. And especially if you’re in a service based business, sometimes you feel like you should give everything to everybody else, but you need to get paid as well.
Any of us where it’s effectively our personal time, we still fall into the same traps where we either only work out: Okay, here’s my hourly rate, and it’s like the bare minimum. It doesn’t factor in anything around: what if one day I might like to take a holiday – even basic things. What if one day, I’m feeling under the weather, and I can’t work myself to death this day. So at the beginning, it’s almost like you feel like you’re just trying to get little crumbs, you’re grateful for the little crumbs that people give you.
I was terrible at pricing my own services. And I still found that I had quite a lot of fear and anxiety around setting that pricing. I sort of justified it to myself. And what I used to say to myself was: well, I don’t want to charge too much, because then their expectations are going to be higher. And they’re going to want me to do more and more and more work, and I don’t want to get overworked. So that was my way of keeping my prices low. And it was absolute nonsense. It was just because I was too scared to say a bigger number out loud.
Oh, yes. And that sometimes can be the moment where you find that stickiness of: oh my goodness, I’ve actually got to say this out loud where people go, “so what do you charge them?” Everybody sweating listening to this! But I think sometimes it is that moment of like: oh, what do I charge then?
One thing that I wanted to share as well when I was preparing for this, is sometimes we believe that the cheapest things or the free things are going to be the easiest to sell or to give away. However, I haven’t found that to be the case. I for example, like I have a 20 pound shop on my website, because I feel like it’s really important to give people a head start people, you know, there’s the self development and business where it’s like: “invest thousands”. It’s like, no, people don’t have £50,000 under their bed just not knowing what to do with it for the most part. So I wanted to start with this. However, people who sometimes inquired and quite often not even paid the 20 pounds, so you can have emails back and forth like: “I don’t know, which is the right one for me, and I don’t know what to do; do you think maybe you could look at my website, Nicky and just advise?” However, when I work with people over a longer period of time, my strategy days, my monthly packages, my three months, people are like: “Great, just let me know how much you charge and I’ll send it over” because there’s an investment. There’s a shift in: “I’m ready to do this”. And that has been really eye-opening, because I thought the opposite would be the case. Like they will be the really hard sells. And you know, I’ve noticed that sometimes where people literally just come across my work, and they go: “hi, I’ve just discovered your website. I’d like to book one of those”. And I’m thinking: do you? Because again, it’s probably an old block, like: yeah, but do you want me to come to your house and just prove that I’m a nice person first? And people are like: “No, I just want what you offer. Thank you.”
When you’re ready, you’re ready. And when you find something that resonates with you, you’re like, Okay, I’m all in. I’m all in. But I think as the service provider, we get a little spooked by that, because we’re like: don’t I need to show you my credentials? Would you like hear from everyone who’s worked with me for the last 10 years? What can I prove?
It goes back to that moment of: this feels easy though, this doesn’t feel like work. This feels fun. And, again, we’re not taught that, we’re not taught to have a nice time whilst doing it. We’re taught that everything should be a struggle, and everything should be tricky. And, yeah, we should really resent our work. And I really don’t.
I think it’s very telling the language that we use to describe things and particularly these new types of ways of working that we see now in portfolio careers, gig economy and things. And the way that it’s described as “hustle”. I think is almost what we’re conditioning people for a life that feels much harder to put together and goals which feel further away from them. And I don’t think it needs to be like that. This whole idea of hustle porn. I feel quite allergic to it. So I’m an entrepreneur and I work very, very hard at times. And I’m really, really aware of the damage that that can do to you. I’ve had periods where I had sort of burnout and had to really look after myself. I’m just worry that we’ve glorifying aspects of this, which are just full stop unhealthy for people.
And I think you’ve talked before on your podcast about trying to redefine this idea of success and moving away from: “I’ve got a seven figure business in six weeks, and you can do it. I’ve done this and if you follow my three steps, you could achieve it too!” And it glosses over the real hard work and the having to put yourself out there that that makes the difference in success.
Exactly. And it’s so funny talking about, you know, my mom is a brilliant support in my life in so many ways. And she’s not on social media. So sometimes when I’m explaining what I’m doing, or maybe asking her opinion, sometimes she doesn’t quite have the context of it. But when I say things like: “Oh, this person has just said that they’ve had a multi million pound a month or something”. She said to me the other day, isn’t that just boasting? And I was like: oh my goodness, there is a point to that. It’s like, it’s just somebody shouting from the rooftops, what they’ve done, and what they what they have achieved.
Now, on one hand, that is really important, because I do feel like we need to see examples of women, especially that are making it (and men) but we see less with women. Women who are really earning mega money, who are true leaders in their industries and are moving the needle in business. Really a big believer in that, but also, I think we need to see some context in that. Because otherwise, we’re just seeing like a shiny glossy front, and we can’t see what is sort of behind it. You know, sometimes we might see on those awful documentaries that I may watch in the middle of the night, where you see this beautiful mansion being built on the front, and it’s got this gorgeous facade and this sweeping driveway, and then behind the back wall is kind of crumbled down. And you know, there’s nobody in it, and it’s got a bit of a weird smell and all of that sort of stuff. So, I think we have to be really careful about how we market ourselves and what we’re actually selling.
And another thing on that is sometimes this dream life of having it all. Sometimes in the coaching industry, people are like: “In this hour, we are going to make you the most empowered version of yourself. You’re going to have clarity for your life, to be the best mother to be the best wife” and you’re like, we’ve only got an hour together you don’t realise how much work there is to do!
Yes, my life is just chaos. This is never getting fixed in an hour. I don’t think you understand!
So what you end up doing then is the service provider is setting the bar so high that you have to give all these promises. And if you’re if somebody then leaves going: “Oh, actually, I’ve just had a row with my husband on the way home, she hasn’t sorted that,” somebody is going to feel unsatisfied. Whereas there is a power sometimes in saying, I’m not going to help you with your relationship, or I’m not the best person to ask about Facebook ads or whatever it might be. But these are the things that I really do well. I think there’s a real power, especially because we are prone to being pleasers and helpers, and being all the things to all the people.
I think that’s been a real thing for me to have to work out and the only way I’ve really worked it out is by doing too much. That getting completely overwhelming for me and then thinking having to think very carefully about: Okay, what do I need to drop just for my own sanity?
Yes. And I think sometimes there is that feeling, especially if you’re starting out with your own gig that every opportunity could lead to something. So therefore you should say yes. And so often what people say is go to every networking thing, go to this, go to that, you never know who you’re gonna meet. And I felt like that as an actor. However, I don’t want to. And I think sometimes it comes down to that, that it’s always questioning like, what is the best use of your time? You don’t have to be everywhere, out every night of the week, because again, you’re going to get burnt out. If you can be more discerning, then you’re going to have much more energy to put into the sources that need it.
Yeah, that’s definitely something that I’ve learned over time. I was 100% like really frantic at the beginning. Sort of chasing and just having that feeling of: I must try everything, I must be everywhere. I have to chase down every lead. And now I’m very much like, Oh, no, I haven’t got time. Once you get to a point where your diary is just quite packed anyway, with work, you really don’t have time. And it’s amazing the filter that you have.
That’s amazing. One thing I was going to say, which I didn’t really take into account, because again, this is maybe a piece of a “no, but I’ve got to be on the phone, or I’ve really got to convince somebody.” Really think about if you’re a service based business, how you can really show what you do online, and on your website and on social media, and how you can build that trust factor and credibility without you being in the room. This has been game changing – is that the amount of people that I’ve worked with, and they’ll go: “yeah, but I haven’t done anything.” And I had to say this client a little while ago. I was like: but you were on This Morning a little while ago, sharing your story. She’s like: “oh, yeah” I’m like, is it on your website? And she’s like, “Oh, no”.
Whereas there’s so many things that we’ve all done or that we can all share. And even if you’re just starting out and you’re like, yes, but I haven’t been on This Morning yet, for example, talk about the stuff that you have done, share a bit of your personality, share what your flavour is, what your USP is, and allow that to work and grow for you while you’re not in the room. Because I tell you what the amount of people who will discover you at 2am or sitting, you know, outside their kid’s bedroom, googling or, you know, they come across you because somebody else has shouted you out on social media. Make sure that you have these platforms in place, that are really going to take care of you whilst you’re not there. And then you can get on the phone, because also then what happens is when you do get on the phone with somebody, they know lots about you. So again, you’re not spending that time having to convince somebody, or give them your life story. You know, because time is money, my friends!
That’s really great advice. And how do you do so much? You know, I look at my life and I think ‘busy’ and then I look at yours and I’m like ‘HOW?’ I’m always quite honest about the help that I get: whether it’s bought in (in terms of other people providing services to me) or whether it’s therapy and coaching that I have in order to be able to stay vaguely sane in what I do. Do you get help?
No, I just do all on my own!
Wow! Like wonder woman
No, no, no! Far from it. Not at all. Not at all. Well, my partner is freelance. So that helps in terms of being able to work a schedule in the week and sometimes that works beautifully. And we are that family that are having a random Tuesday lunch hour, and we’re all sitting there and like: look at us winning the freelance life. This is amazing. And then there are other times where it’s hectic and stressful and busy, and nobody’s getting what they need. And it all just feels a bit chaotic.
So there’s always a front of house and a behind the scenes type situation. My mum lives on the same road, which really helps again, so she’s wonderful with my children. I have a six month old and a four year old. I have a cleaner, my son goes to nursery three days a week. I also just invested in a coach for myself for a year. So making sure that that works. And then I sort of hire, you know, people who I want to help me. So sometimes I’ll hire a videographer or a photographer, and I purchase online courses, or I work with people on an ad hoc basis. So I’m always looking at how can I get the help that I need?
But one thing that I’ve really done which has been useful is I really question whether I want to do something, so I don’t just have the default thing of: Oh, I should do that. I just try and do the stuff that I really love and that I want to have. And again, I set up things in advance. So when I first started working with this current agent three years ago, I spent a lot of time putting foundations in place of what I wanted to do and the career I wanted to have (and what was acceptable to me or how we wanted to work). And we spent a lot of that time, strategizing it together. And so therefore, he’s not phoning me every five minutes going: “is this something that you’re vaguely interested in?” because we have that trusting relationship. So I am a big believer in trying to put things and systems in place. So for example, if somebody is looking after my child, it’s really obvious where the other pairs of pants are or where his swimming kit is, or any of those sort of things. So they’re not phoning me going: “we can’t find the thing for the buggy, you know, because that’s the stuff that really slows you down. And it just makes you anxious to be honest.
Sounds like you’ve got a good mix of structure and systems in place. But also, you’re not trying to pretend that it’s always going to run that smoothly.
Absolutely, and you know what? In 2019, I was pregnant for most of it. My daughter was born in August, and when I did my planning (because I always do it around sort of November time, and because that’s when my birthday is). In November 2018. I spoke at Stylist Live, and it was actually on my birthday. And I was like, oh, my goodness, this is so amazing. And this is great. And, you know, we were hoping to have another baby. And baby was maybe planned for 2019 – to sort of be pregnant in 2019. But she was born in August and so those things like – run a half marathon, write my second book – they just go off off the list.
Because I am somebody who doesn’t look like the woman in the John Lewis catalogue when I’m pregnant. I look disgusting. I have to lie on the floor for the first four months, you know, throwing up 20 times a day, I am that person. So also I’ve learned to really pivot and not go, do you know what: I don’t need to write my book proposal before I have a child. That can be another year. Take it off the list and focus on the stuff that I actually need to do, which was putting systems in place so I would be able to earn once my daughter was here.
I think that’s such important advice. I remember having a coach several years back, and she really helped me with some of my perfectionistic tendencies. And she said: “You’re treating your vision for what you want to happen as the standard that you have to hit, instead of seeing as inspiration”. And it was such a eureka moment for me. I was just like: ohhhhhhh!
Again, you give yourself permission. These are things that you would like to do. And here’s the timeframe that you’re thinking about it. But if it doesn’t happen, then that’s okay. Let’s move it because that means that there is something else that is happening. That just takes priority. And that’s okay. It’s not something to beat yourself up about. It’s just life.
Totally. And, you know, one of my goals was to have another baby and I feel very grateful that I was able to do that. So also, I didn’t want to just go: right that’s ticked off the list. Now let’s move on to the next thing. It’s like hang on a minute. This is a big, complex, interesting, life affirming, life game changing type situation. And I want to be able to, you know, when we talk about success as well being a successful (whatever that means), or being a present mom and feeling like I’m giving to my children, giving to my partner, is equally very important to how I do my work.
And you know what I’ve noticed that as well for for many years, I was sort of slightly because I guess with the acting industry, they’re like, if you have children, your career is going to be over because you won’t be seen as x, y and z. In fact, the opposite has happened. I’ve never worked more – not necessarily in sort of time and in hours, but I’ve never had so many yes’s. You know, there was a lot of times where I felt like I was just knocking on doors and people will be like: “no, sorry, love – see ya.” Or not even answer the door. And I feel like the gap from going for something and getting the job, or getting paid for it, has really shortened. And I think so many people would say, oh, when is the right time? Or can you do this and you can. Actually, become much more strategic and much more focused in doing that.
You have to figure out what is going to be your version of success and what that means and how you want to run your life. You know, all these permission things.
It really is. Thank you. This has been such an interesting conversation. And you’ve touched on so many things that I’ve had to figure out for myself along the way. And probably if I’d known you several years before, it would have been a quicker pathway to sort of enlightenment around a lot of these topics. So it’s brilliant that you exist.
Wow, thank you, that’s a lovely compliment. One final thing I can share is somebody interviewed me for something the other day and they said, What does your LinkedIn profile not tell me about you? And I said, all the challenges, all the tricky times that I’ve had along the way, and all the near misses. And all the, oh gosh, this feels really tough, and I’m going to have to pick myself up and it doesn’t share any of that.
We’re only really allowed most of us to show that top kind of 10% and nobody sees everything that’s happening underneath. It’s why I love your messages of kindness and empathy and encouragement. And just understanding that there’s a lot in life. There is a lot going on at all times, some of which we can try to plan for and some of which is just going to be unpredictable. And like you say, we’re all just doing our best and that is okay.
So Nicky, if people want to know more about you, where should they go to? What’s your website?
You can just come to nickyraby.com and I’m on social media, just @nickyraby across everything. And my podcast as well. So I release lots of interviews with interesting people, entrepreneurs, journalists, makers, movers, shakers, all kinds of people and I also do sort of mini episodes as well. So helping you to grow a personal brand that not only love but it actually makes you money. So I talk about topics such as getting visible, making a plan. Lots of the topics that we’ve talked about today. But thank you so much for having me. I really enjoyed our chat.
Thank you so much. I will put all of your details in the show notes so that people can find you. And thanks everyone for listening. I hope you found it useful, and we’ll see you soon.
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